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Hadoop >> mail # general >> [DISCUSS] Spin out MR, HDFS and YARN as their own TLPs and disband Hadoop umbrella project


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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 02:33
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Alejandro Abdelnur 2012-08-29, 03:50
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-29, 16:31
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Tom White 2012-08-29, 17:30
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Eric Baldeschwieler 2012-08-29, 17:42
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Suresh Srinivas 2012-08-29, 17:02
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Alejandro Abdelnur 2012-08-29, 17:13
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Suresh Srinivas 2012-08-29, 17:26
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Konstantin Boudnik 2012-08-29, 18:41
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-29, 17:04
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-29, 18:22
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Eli Collins 2012-08-29, 18:49
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Tom White 2012-08-29, 20:34
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Alejandro Abdelnur 2012-08-29, 20:40
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Todd Lipcon 2012-08-29, 21:18
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Andrew Purtell 2012-08-30, 13:46
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Sharad Agarwal 2012-08-30, 06:41
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 23:29
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Doug Cutting 2012-08-30, 16:17
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Todd Lipcon 2012-08-29, 23:44
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Konstantin Boudnik 2012-08-30, 02:59
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 23:54
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Konstantin Shvachko 2012-08-30, 10:12
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Andrew Purtell 2012-08-30, 14:11
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Aaron T. Myers 2012-08-30, 14:23
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Brock Noland 2012-08-30, 14:43
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Devaraj Das 2012-08-31, 01:28
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Andrew Purtell 2012-08-31, 06:02
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-31, 06:15
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Andrew Purtell 2012-08-31, 06:42
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-31, 06:50
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Todd Lipcon 2012-08-31, 16:59
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Alejandro Abdelnur 2012-08-31, 17:10
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Jagane Sundar 2012-08-31, 17:24
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Alejandro Abdelnur 2012-08-31, 17:11
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Andrew Purtell 2012-08-31, 07:55
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Re: [DISCUSS] Spin out MR, HDFS and YARN as their own TLPs and disband Hadoop umbrella project
Andrew,

I agree with you that the DLL/CLASSPATH issues is one huge concern that
needs to be addressed before we can really move forward with a valid
longterm split.  There is hope on the horizon for that though with some of
the OSGI work that Tom White has been doing.

Chris,

I completely agree with Andrew here.  There are very *REAL* technical
issues that need to be addressed before a *CLEAN* split can happen.  We
can make a messy one, but the ramifications are far from trivial.  If we
simply go in blindly it will at a minimum take months to stabilize and get
back to where we are now.  You may be OK with that, but many of us are
not.  Simply dismissing others' concurs as invalid is not good for the
community.  Many of us, as indaviduals, have a huge vested interest in
having a stable version of Hadoop with new features in it regularly
released.  That is why we are part of this community.  It frankly baffles
me that "community over code" can be used to dismiss concurs about an
issue that many of us see as something that will hurt the community.  I am
+1 for the split, and I am +1 for doing it soon, but I am -1 on doing it
without at least having a plan as to how we will tease apart the different
pieces of Hadoop.

--Bobby

On 8/31/12 2:55 AM, "Andrew Purtell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>The end user community might disappear, and you are ok with this? I'm
>simply astonished. Who are these people showing up to help, document, be
>on
>lists, whatever, if not current or prospective end users? Who the hell
>shows up to write unit tests? Who is this "public" in public good? Looks
>to
>me like a small cabal of commercial concerns in this case.
>
>I guess the only thing we are going to agree on is that confidence in
>Apache Hadoop project stewardship at the ASF isn't currently warranted.
>And
>here I thought things were going so well. Who knew this torpedo lurked
>beneath the waters. I guess just members of the cabal. There's nothing
>more
>for me to say, just maybe a few hard decisions to make, depending how this
>turns out.
>
>On Friday, August 31, 2012, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 11:42 PM, Andrew Purtell wrote:
>>
>> > If Apache Hadoop -- as an umbrella or sum of its parts -- isn't
>>practical
>> > to develop end applications or downstream projects on, the community
>>will
>> > disappear.
>>
>> Sure, the end-user community might disappear, but the point I'm trying
>>to
>> make is
>> that the community is more than that. It's developers that build code
>> together
>> ("community over code"); it's folks who write documentation who are part
>> of the
>> project's committee of folks working together to develop software for
>>the
>> public
>> good at this Foundation. It's folks who write unit tests as part of
>>that.
>>  It's also people
>> that fly by on the lists and that need help; or that may throw up a
>>patch,
>> or
>> whatever. It's other members of the Apache Software Foundation that are
>> charged with caring and giving a rip about the Foundation's projects.
>>
>> It's also downstream users of the software too -- they just aren't the
>> only folks who
>> are the community, that's all.
>>
>> > I don't follow your logic. I deal with the technical realities
>> > of actually trying to use an Apache Hadoop distribution, the pieces
>> > released as source from the ASF, directly in production, and your
>> position
>> > is dismissive if not hostile to my concerns as an end user.
>>
>> Sorry I wasn't trying to be dismissive. But at the same time I want to
>> suggest that
>> the community is broader than simply the technical folks who use the
>> project.
>>
>> > What
>> > "community" do you mean then? Vendors? Academics? People who like to
>> tinker
>> > with things they can't actually use?
>>
>> Yeah the community I'm talking about is the larger whole that makes up
>> the community of the project.
>>
>> >
>> > And you can't just hand waive that this will all work out if done
>>RIGHT
>
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-31, 15:09
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Doug Cutting 2012-08-31, 16:00
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-31, 16:08
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Eric Baldeschwieler 2012-09-01, 00:23
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Sharad Agarwal 2012-09-01, 09:59
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Mahadev Konar 2012-08-31, 15:05
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-31, 06:36
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-30, 13:51
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-30, 10:25
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-30, 11:00
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Todd Lipcon 2012-08-30, 00:16
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-30, 00:55
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 23:34
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Jakob Homan 2012-08-29, 21:22
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Travis Thompson 2012-08-29, 22:30
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Steve Loughran 2012-08-31, 11:54
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 14:14
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Robert Evans 2012-08-29, 15:17
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 17:22
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Eric Baldeschwieler 2012-08-29, 03:45
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Michael Segel 2012-08-29, 17:26
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-29, 18:48
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 23:20
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Eli Collins 2012-08-30, 05:46
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-30, 06:31
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Eli Collins 2012-08-30, 07:02
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Alejandro Abdelnur 2012-08-30, 07:11
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-30, 12:29
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Todd Lipcon 2012-08-29, 23:35
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Aaron T. Myers 2012-08-29, 23:53
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Konstantin Boudnik 2012-08-29, 23:47
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Todd Lipcon 2012-08-29, 23:48
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-30, 01:52
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Inder.dev Java 2012-08-30, 16:33
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Doug Cutting 2012-08-30, 17:00
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Owen OMalley 2012-08-30, 18:25
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Inder.dev Java 2012-08-31, 19:00
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Doug Cutting 2012-08-31, 20:44
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Eric Baldeschwieler 2012-08-31, 22:43
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Eli Collins 2012-08-29, 18:41
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 23:19
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Eli Collins 2012-08-30, 05:38
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-30, 06:06
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Eli Collins 2012-08-30, 06:18
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-30, 06:31
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Eli Collins 2012-08-30, 07:17
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Konstantin Boudnik 2012-08-29, 23:27
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Mattmann, Chris A 2012-08-29, 23:32
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Arun C Murthy 2012-08-30, 01:47
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Konstantin Boudnik 2012-08-29, 23:40
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Jun Ping Du 2012-08-29, 18:35
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Chris Douglas 2012-08-31, 01:24
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Vinod Kumar Vavilapalli 2012-08-31, 03:35
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Roman Shaposhnik 2012-08-31, 15:59
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Andrew Purtell 2012-09-01, 13:21
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Eli Collins 2012-08-31, 16:54
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Robert Evans 2012-08-31, 16:58
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Todd Lipcon 2012-08-31, 17:06
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Robert Evans 2012-08-31, 18:15
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Andrew Purtell 2012-09-01, 13:32
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Arun C Murthy 2012-09-03, 11:02
NEW: Monitor These Apps!
elasticsearch, apache solr, apache hbase, hadoop, redis, casssandra, amazon cloudwatch, mysql, memcached, apache kafka, apache zookeeper, apache storm, ubuntu, centOS, red hat, debian, puppet labs, java, senseiDB