While MrUnit discussion draws to its natural conclusion I would like
to bring up another point which might be well aligned with that
discussion. Patrick Hunt has brought up this idea earlier today and I
believe it has to be elaborated further.

A number of testing projects both for Hadoop and Hadoop-related
component were brought to life over last year or two. Among those are
MRUnit, PigUnit, YCSB, Herriot, and perhaps a few more. They all
focusing on more or less the same problem e.g. validation of Hadoop or
on-top-of-Hadoop components, or application level testing for Hadoop.
However, the fact that they all are spread across a wide variety of
projects seems to confuse/mislead Hadoop users.

How about incubating a bigger Hadoop (Pig, Oozie, HBase) testing
project which will take care about development and support of common
(where's possible) tools, frameworks and the like? Please feel free to
share your thoughts :)
--
  Take care,
Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:44, Eric Sammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've started the wiki page proposal for Incubator for mrunit. I'll ping
> people off list for mentoring. Much appreciated for all the help!
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Nigel Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I'm happy to help mentor as well.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nige
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> Guys, BTW, if you need help or a mentor in Apache Incubator-ville for
>> MRUnit, I would be happy to help.
>> >
>> > I was going to suggest the same thing (mrunit to incubator). I would
>> > also be happy to be a mentor.
>> >
>> > Patrick

Sounds good to me, Cos. I'm fine to help/mentor with either one that ends up standing when the dust clears :)

Cheers,
Chris

On Feb 15, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:

> While MrUnit discussion draws to its natural conclusion I would like
> to bring up another point which might be well aligned with that
> discussion. Patrick Hunt has brought up this idea earlier today and I
> believe it has to be elaborated further.
>
> A number of testing projects both for Hadoop and Hadoop-related
> component were brought to life over last year or two. Among those are
> MRUnit, PigUnit, YCSB, Herriot, and perhaps a few more. They all
> focusing on more or less the same problem e.g. validation of Hadoop or
> on-top-of-Hadoop components, or application level testing for Hadoop.
> However, the fact that they all are spread across a wide variety of
> projects seems to confuse/mislead Hadoop users.
>
> How about incubating a bigger Hadoop (Pig, Oozie, HBase) testing
> project which will take care about development and support of common
> (where's possible) tools, frameworks and the like? Please feel free to
> share your thoughts :)
> --
>  Take care,
> Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:44, Eric Sammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I've started the wiki page proposal for Incubator for mrunit. I'll ping
>> people off list for mentoring. Much appreciated for all the help!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Nigel Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm happy to help mentor as well.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nige
>>>
>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>> Guys, BTW, if you need help or a mentor in Apache Incubator-ville for
>>> MRUnit, I would be happy to help.
>>>>
>>>> I was going to suggest the same thing (mrunit to incubator). I would
>>>> also be happy to be a mentor.
>>>>
>>>> Patrick
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think this is a good idea. The only thing I think is that it may make
sense to split such an effort into two components: one for the testing of
Hadoop and the projects themselves and one to test end user applications and
libraries. Performance testing tools like YCSB are probably more in the
former camp where mrunit is the latter, as a for instance. I think it's
important to have separate artifacts to minimize uber-jar issues (or
contrib-like situations where release cycles are coupled).

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> While MrUnit discussion draws to its natural conclusion I would like
> to bring up another point which might be well aligned with that
> discussion. Patrick Hunt has brought up this idea earlier today and I
> believe it has to be elaborated further.
>
> A number of testing projects both for Hadoop and Hadoop-related
> component were brought to life over last year or two. Among those are
> MRUnit, PigUnit, YCSB, Herriot, and perhaps a few more. They all
> focusing on more or less the same problem e.g. validation of Hadoop or
> on-top-of-Hadoop components, or application level testing for Hadoop.
> However, the fact that they all are spread across a wide variety of
> projects seems to confuse/mislead Hadoop users.
>
> How about incubating a bigger Hadoop (Pig, Oozie, HBase) testing
> project which will take care about development and support of common
> (where's possible) tools, frameworks and the like? Please feel free to
> share your thoughts :)
> --
>  Take care,
> Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:44, Eric Sammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've started the wiki page proposal for Incubator for mrunit. I'll ping
> > people off list for mentoring. Much appreciated for all the help!
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Nigel Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm happy to help mentor as well.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Nige
> >>
> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> Guys, BTW, if you need help or a mentor in Apache Incubator-ville for
> >> MRUnit, I would be happy to help.
> >> >
> >> > I was going to suggest the same thing (mrunit to incubator). I would
> >> > also be happy to be a mentor.
> >> >
> >> > Patrick
>

--
Eric Sammer
twitter: esammer
data: www.cloudera.com

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 14:15, Eric Sammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think this is a good idea. The only thing I think is that it may make
> sense to split such an effort into two components: one for the testing of
> Hadoop and the projects themselves and one to test end user applications and

I expect to see even greater number of component, to be honest. E.g. a
harness to run stacks testing (which as has been discussed with HBase
folks might utilize YCSB artifacts). Which doesn't invalidate the
purpose of central Hadoop testing project or whatever we might call
it.

> libraries. Performance testing tools like YCSB are probably more in the
> former camp where mrunit is the latter, as a for instance. I think it's
> important to have separate artifacts to minimize uber-jar issues (or
> contrib-like situations where release cycles are coupled).

Having separate artifacts/release cycles would be pretty important for
another reason too: test artifacts might undergo significant changes
between releases of a product. Thus requiring using different versions
of such validating artifacts for differently composed Hadoop stacks.
Uber-jar are proven to be inflexible and pain to deal with.

Cos

> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> While MrUnit discussion draws to its natural conclusion I would like
>> to bring up another point which might be well aligned with that
>> discussion. Patrick Hunt has brought up this idea earlier today and I
>> believe it has to be elaborated further.
>>
>> A number of testing projects both for Hadoop and Hadoop-related
>> component were brought to life over last year or two. Among those are
>> MRUnit, PigUnit, YCSB, Herriot, and perhaps a few more. They all
>> focusing on more or less the same problem e.g. validation of Hadoop or
>> on-top-of-Hadoop components, or application level testing for Hadoop.
>> However, the fact that they all are spread across a wide variety of
>> projects seems to confuse/mislead Hadoop users.
>>
>> How about incubating a bigger Hadoop (Pig, Oozie, HBase) testing
>> project which will take care about development and support of common
>> (where's possible) tools, frameworks and the like? Please feel free to
>> share your thoughts :)
>> --
>>  Take care,
>> Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:44, Eric Sammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > I've started the wiki page proposal for Incubator for mrunit. I'll ping
>> > people off list for mentoring. Much appreciated for all the help!
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Nigel Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm happy to help mentor as well.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Nige
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >> Guys, BTW, if you need help or a mentor in Apache Incubator-ville for
>> >> MRUnit, I would be happy to help.
>> >> >
>> >> > I was going to suggest the same thing (mrunit to incubator). I would
>> >> > also be happy to be a mentor.
>> >> >
>> >> > Patrick
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Eric Sammer
> twitter: esammer
> data: www.cloudera.com
>

On 15/02/11 21:58, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> While MrUnit discussion draws to its natural conclusion I would like
> to bring up another point which might be well aligned with that
> discussion. Patrick Hunt has brought up this idea earlier today and I
> believe it has to be elaborated further.
>
> A number of testing projects both for Hadoop and Hadoop-related
> component were brought to life over last year or two. Among those are
> MRUnit, PigUnit, YCSB, Herriot, and perhaps a few more. They all
> focusing on more or less the same problem e.g. validation of Hadoop or
> on-top-of-Hadoop components, or application level testing for Hadoop.
> However, the fact that they all are spread across a wide variety of
> projects seems to confuse/mislead Hadoop users.
>
> How about incubating a bigger Hadoop (Pig, Oozie, HBase) testing
> project which will take care about development and support of common
> (where's possible) tools, frameworks and the like? Please feel free to
> share your thoughts :)
> --

I think it would be good though specific projects will need/have their
own testing needs -I'd expect more focus for testing redistributables to
be on helping Hadoop users test their stuff against subsets of data,
rather than the hadoop-*-dev problem of "stressing the hadoop stack once
your latest patch is applied".

That said, the whole problem of qualifying an OS, Java release and
cluster is something we'd expect most end user teams to have to do
-right now terasort is the main stress test.

+1
Having a coherent approach for system level testing increases confidence in the various Hadoop releases and and will reduce the effort to take any (set of ) changes from development into production.
The more automated and formalized system testing, the better!

Thanks,

Joep
________________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Konstantin Boudnik [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Hadoop testing project [Was: [VOTE] Abandon mrunit MapReduce contrib]

While MrUnit discussion draws to its natural conclusion I would like
to bring up another point which might be well aligned with that
discussion. Patrick Hunt has brought up this idea earlier today and I
believe it has to be elaborated further.

A number of testing projects both for Hadoop and Hadoop-related
component were brought to life over last year or two. Among those are
MRUnit, PigUnit, YCSB, Herriot, and perhaps a few more. They all
focusing on more or less the same problem e.g. validation of Hadoop or
on-top-of-Hadoop components, or application level testing for Hadoop.
However, the fact that they all are spread across a wide variety of
projects seems to confuse/mislead Hadoop users.

How about incubating a bigger Hadoop (Pig, Oozie, HBase) testing
project which will take care about development and support of common
(where's possible) tools, frameworks and the like? Please feel free to
share your thoughts :)
--
  Take care,
Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:44, Eric Sammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've started the wiki page proposal for Incubator for mrunit. I'll ping
> people off list for mentoring. Much appreciated for all the help!
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Nigel Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I'm happy to help mentor as well.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nige
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> Guys, BTW, if you need help or a mentor in Apache Incubator-ville for
>> MRUnit, I would be happy to help.
>> >
>> > I was going to suggest the same thing (mrunit to incubator). I would
>> > also be happy to be a mentor.
>> >
>> > Patrick

Working to develop code as a client of Hadoop is a path full of landmines.
The more tools we can provide to users to improve the quality of their code,
the better. I think it is important, though, to draw a clear distinction
between tools intended for different audiences. Talking about system testing
tools for Hadoop release/QA processes is good, but one of the benefits I see
of calling MRUnit (designed for client app developers) out of the Hadoop
project at large is to increase its usability. Conflating it with a system
testing tool (for release engineers) would not fulfill that need.

As long as the new project can release several distinct artifacts in a way
that makes their intent clear to the user community, I'm in favor of
gathering as many perspectives on Hadoop testing under one "roof" as
possible.

- Aaron

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Rottinghuis, Joep
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> +1
> Having a coherent approach for system level testing increases confidence in
> the various Hadoop releases and and will reduce the effort to take any (set
> of ) changes from development into production.
> The more automated and formalized system testing, the better!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joep
> ________________________________________
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Konstantin Boudnik [
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:58 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Hadoop testing project [Was: [VOTE] Abandon mrunit MapReduce
> contrib]
>
> While MrUnit discussion draws to its natural conclusion I would like
> to bring up another point which might be well aligned with that
> discussion. Patrick Hunt has brought up this idea earlier today and I
> believe it has to be elaborated further.
>
> A number of testing projects both for Hadoop and Hadoop-related
> component were brought to life over last year or two. Among those are
> MRUnit, PigUnit, YCSB, Herriot, and perhaps a few more. They all
> focusing on more or less the same problem e.g. validation of Hadoop or
> on-top-of-Hadoop components, or application level testing for Hadoop.
> However, the fact that they all are spread across a wide variety of
> projects seems to confuse/mislead Hadoop users.
>
> How about incubating a bigger Hadoop (Pig, Oozie, HBase) testing
> project which will take care about development and support of common
> (where's possible) tools, frameworks and the like? Please feel free to
> share your thoughts :)
> --
>  Take care,
> Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:44, Eric Sammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've started the wiki page proposal for Incubator for mrunit. I'll ping
> > people off list for mentoring. Much appreciated for all the help!
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Nigel Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm happy to help mentor as well.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Nige
> >>
> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> Guys, BTW, if you need help or a mentor in Apache Incubator-ville for
> >> MRUnit, I would be happy to help.
> >> >
> >> > I was going to suggest the same thing (mrunit to incubator). I would
> >> > also be happy to be a mentor.
> >> >
> >> > Patrick
>

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:27, Aaron Kimball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Working to develop code as a client of Hadoop is a path full of landmines.
> The more tools we can provide to users to improve the quality of their code,
> the better. I think it is important, though, to draw a clear distinction
> between tools intended for different audiences. Talking about system testing
> tools for Hadoop release/QA processes is good, but one of the benefits I see
> of calling MRUnit (designed for client app developers) out of the Hadoop
> project at large is to increase its usability. Conflating it with a system
> testing tool (for release engineers) would not fulfill that need.

Yup, they are different all right.

> As long as the new project can release several distinct artifacts in a way
> that makes their intent clear to the user community, I'm in favor of
> gathering as many perspectives on Hadoop testing under one "roof" as
> possible.

That's the goal.

> - Aaron
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Rottinghuis, Joep
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>> +1
>> Having a coherent approach for system level testing increases confidence in
>> the various Hadoop releases and and will reduce the effort to take any (set
>> of ) changes from development into production.
>> The more automated and formalized system testing, the better!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joep
>> ________________________________________
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Konstantin Boudnik [
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:58 PM
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Hadoop testing project [Was: [VOTE] Abandon mrunit MapReduce
>> contrib]
>>
>> While MrUnit discussion draws to its natural conclusion I would like
>> to bring up another point which might be well aligned with that
>> discussion. Patrick Hunt has brought up this idea earlier today and I
>> believe it has to be elaborated further.
>>
>> A number of testing projects both for Hadoop and Hadoop-related
>> component were brought to life over last year or two. Among those are
>> MRUnit, PigUnit, YCSB, Herriot, and perhaps a few more. They all
>> focusing on more or less the same problem e.g. validation of Hadoop or
>> on-top-of-Hadoop components, or application level testing for Hadoop.
>> However, the fact that they all are spread across a wide variety of
>> projects seems to confuse/mislead Hadoop users.
>>
>> How about incubating a bigger Hadoop (Pig, Oozie, HBase) testing
>> project which will take care about development and support of common
>> (where's possible) tools, frameworks and the like? Please feel free to
>> share your thoughts :)
>> --
>>  Take care,
>> Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:44, Eric Sammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > I've started the wiki page proposal for Incubator for mrunit. I'll ping
>> > people off list for mentoring. Much appreciated for all the help!
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Nigel Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm happy to help mentor as well.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Nige
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >> Guys, BTW, if you need help or a mentor in Apache Incubator-ville for
>> >> MRUnit, I would be happy to help.
>> >> >
>> >> > I was going to suggest the same thing (mrunit to incubator). I would
>> >> > also be happy to be a mentor.
>> >> >
>> >> > Patrick
>>
>