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Re: Spindle per Cores
Thanks everyone.
I think I got the idea and I would start to think in reverse by looking at the budget that willing to pay for the cluster then get
the best performance that can keep ratio of CPU:memory:Spindle.
From: ranjith raghunath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 22:27:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Spindle per Cores
Thanks Michael.

On Oct 12, 2012 9:59 PM, "Michael Segel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
I think what we are seeing is the ratio based on physical Xeon cores.
So hyper threading wouldn't make any change to  the actual ratio.
(1 disk per physical core, would be 1 disk per 2 virtual cores.)

Again YMMV and of course thanks to this guy Moore who decided to write some weird laws... the ratio could change over time as the CPUs become more efficient and faster.
On Oct 12, 2012, at 9:52 PM, ranjith raghunath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Does hypertheading affect this ratio?

On Oct 12, 2012 9:36 PM, "Michael Segel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
First, the obvious caveat... YMMV

Having said that.

The key here is to take a look across the various jobs that you will run. Some may be more CPU intensive, others more I/O intensive.

If you monitor these jobs via Ganglia, when you have too few spindles you should see the wait cpu rise on the machines in the cluster.  That is to say that you are putting an extra load on the systems because you're waiting for the disks to catch up.

If you increase the ratio of disks to CPU, you should see that load drop as you are not wasting CPU cycles.

Note that its not just the number of spindles, but also the bus and the controller cards that can also affect the throughput of disk I/O.

Now just IMHO, there was a discussion on some of the CPU recommendations. To a point, it doesn't matter that much. You want to maximize the bang for the buck you can get w your hardware purchase.

Use the ratio as a buying guide. Fewer than a ratio of 1 disk per core, and you're wasting the cpu that you bought.

Going higher than a ratio of 1, like 1.5, and you may be buying too many spindles and not see a performance gain that offsets your cost.

Search for a happy medium and don't sweat the maximum performance that you may get.


On Oct 12, 2012, at 4:19 PM, Jeffrey Buell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

> I've done some experiments along these lines.  I'm using high-performance 15K RPM SAS drives instead of the more usual SATA drives, which should reduce the number of drives I need.  I have dual 4-core processors at 3.6 GHz.  These are more powerful than the average 4-core processor, which should increase the number of drives I need.  Assuming these 2 effects cancel, then my results should also apply to machines with SATA drives and average processors.  Using 8 drives (1-1) gets good performance for teragen and terasort.  Going to 12 drives (1.5 per core) increases terasort performance by 15%.  That might not seem like much compared to increasing the number of drives by 50%, but a better comparison is that 4 extra drives increased the cost of each machine by only about 12%, so the extra drives are (barely) worth it. If you're more time sensitive than cost sensitive, they they're definitely worth it.  The extra drives did not help teragen, apparently because both CPU and the internal storage controller were close to saturation. So, of course everything depends on the app.  You're shooting for saturated CPUs and disk bandwidth.  Check that the CPU is not saturated (after checking Hadoop tuning and optimizing the number of tasks). Check that you have enough memory for more tasks with room leftover for a large buffer cache.  Use 10 GbE networking or make sure the network has enough headroom.  Check the storage controller can handle more bandwidth.  If all are true (that is, no other bottlenecks), consider adding more drives.