It's becoming apparent that it would be useful to have a wiki.  Alan, do you need to put in the ticket for Confluence space, or should I do it?

It's also time to start thinking about making a release from the 1.3 branch.  Perhaps we could document the release process on the wiki when we get it.

Billie

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Billie J Rinaldi <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It's becoming apparent that it would be useful to have a wiki.
+1
> Alan, do you need to put in the ticket for Confluence space, or should I do
> it?
>
> It's also time to start thinking about making a release from the 1.3
> branch.  Perhaps we could document the release process on the wiki when we
> get it.
>
> Billie
>

--
-------------------
Jesse Yates
240-888-2200
@jesse_yates

Just a friendly note that in jetty we have started to look at
abandoning using the wiki in favor of a docbook approach to produce
documentation.  Also it looks like the apache directory folks are
going a similar route of producing their wiki documentation through
docbook as well.  Much of the maven documentation has trended the same
way, at least that produced by Sonatype.  If your starting from
scratch it may be worth taking a few minutes to investigate other
options.  There are also other options like markdown and some tooling
that lets you go from wiki text files into docbook and then be
transformed into xhtml, pdf, eclipse-help, and many other options all
in a maven build.

cheers,
jesse

--
jesse mcconnell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 14:09, Jesse Yates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Billie J Rinaldi <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> It's becoming apparent that it would be useful to have a wiki.
>
>
> +1
>
>
>> Alan, do you need to put in the ticket for Confluence space, or should I do
>> it?
>>
>> It's also time to start thinking about making a release from the 1.3
>> branch.  Perhaps we could document the release process on the wiki when we
>> get it.
>>
>> Billie
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------
> Jesse Yates
> 240-888-2200
> @jesse_yates
>

On Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:15:16 PM, "Jesse McConnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just a friendly note that in jetty we have started to look at
> abandoning using the wiki in favor of a docbook approach to produce
> documentation. Also it looks like the apache directory folks are
> going a similar route of producing their wiki documentation through
> docbook as well. Much of the maven documentation has trended the same
> way, at least that produced by Sonatype. If your starting from
> scratch it may be worth taking a few minutes to investigate other
> options. There are also other options like markdown and some tooling
> that lets you go from wiki text files into docbook and then be
> transformed into xhtml, pdf, eclipse-help, and many other options all
> in a maven build.

We are already using markdown for our main web site, although it isn't being built with maven.  We could attempt to use the main site in place of a wiki once CMS is enabled for it.  The downside is that only committers would be able to edit it.  It would be nice if others could contribute as well.

Billie

Billie,

In the Karaf world we started a wiki for that purpose also.  Our experience was that folks didn't use it, preferring the documentation on the website or the mailing lists.

When ServiceMix tried to move more aggressively to Wiki, James Strachan (uber committer extra-ordinaire) said the following:

Finding contributions are very rare in documentation from non
committers (and anyone who provides a decent amount of docs as a patch
should be a committer anyway IMHO) - so the wiki isn't that big a deal
really; the actual committers typically would rather be able to edit
the docs using text editors (search & replace FTW!).

Mike Van

ASF - Committer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billie J Rinaldi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:00:00 PM
Subject: Re: wiki & release

On Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:15:16 PM, "Jesse McConnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just a friendly note that in jetty we have started to look at
> abandoning using the wiki in favor of a docbook approach to produce
> documentation. Also it looks like the apache directory folks are
> going a similar route of producing their wiki documentation through
> docbook as well. Much of the maven documentation has trended the same
> way, at least that produced by Sonatype. If your starting from
> scratch it may be worth taking a few minutes to investigate other
> options. There are also other options like markdown and some tooling
> that lets you go from wiki text files into docbook and then be
> transformed into xhtml, pdf, eclipse-help, and many other options all
> in a maven build.

We are already using markdown for our main web site, although it isn't being built with maven.  We could attempt to use the main site in place of a wiki once CMS is enabled for it.  The downside is that only committers would be able to edit it.  It would be nice if others could contribute as well.

Billie

well, we are putting our docbook project out on github for
collaboration, that way we can take in pull requests...but I digress,
wiki's need a lot of care and feeding or they become a morass of goop.
 good luck! :)

cheers,
jesse

--
jesse mcconnell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 15:00, Billie J Rinaldi
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:15:16 PM, "Jesse McConnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Just a friendly note that in jetty we have started to look at
>> abandoning using the wiki in favor of a docbook approach to produce
>> documentation. Also it looks like the apache directory folks are
>> going a similar route of producing their wiki documentation through
>> docbook as well. Much of the maven documentation has trended the same
>> way, at least that produced by Sonatype. If your starting from
>> scratch it may be worth taking a few minutes to investigate other
>> options. There are also other options like markdown and some tooling
>> that lets you go from wiki text files into docbook and then be
>> transformed into xhtml, pdf, eclipse-help, and many other options all
>> in a maven build.
>
> We are already using markdown for our main web site, although it isn't being built with maven.  We could attempt to use the main site in place of a wiki once CMS is enabled for it.  The downside is that only committers would be able to edit it.  It would be nice if others could contribute as well.
>
> Billie
>

Billie,

As you are researching web-site and documentation technologies, I'd like to recommend an approach that we (Karaf) have found useful:

    • Consider creating a "site" project in your SVN tree to hold all of your website stuff. This will allow to you tag it corresponding to each of your product releases.
    • Take a look at Scalate Wikitext. We use this on Karaf to write our HTML documents, and it uses a very easy wiki-like syntax.  In fact, we use it for our site and for our documentation.  We also use PrinceXML to generate PDF's from the documentation stored in our source-tree.

If you would like help, feel free to ask!

Mike Van

ASF - Committer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Billie J Rinaldi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:00:00 PM
Subject: Re: wiki & release

On Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:15:16 PM, "Jesse McConnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just a friendly note that in jetty we have started to look at
> abandoning using the wiki in favor of a docbook approach to produce
> documentation. Also it looks like the apache directory folks are
> going a similar route of producing their wiki documentation through
> docbook as well. Much of the maven documentation has trended the same
> way, at least that produced by Sonatype. If your starting from
> scratch it may be worth taking a few minutes to investigate other
> options. There are also other options like markdown and some tooling
> that lets you go from wiki text files into docbook and then be
> transformed into xhtml, pdf, eclipse-help, and many other options all
> in a maven build.

We are already using markdown for our main web site, although it isn't being built with maven.  We could attempt to use the main site in place of a wiki once CMS is enabled for it.  The downside is that only committers would be able to edit it.  It would be nice if others could contribute as well.

Billie

OK, I'm convinced we may not need a wiki.

On Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:14:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> • Consider creating a "site" project in your SVN tree

We do have a site project in SVN, intended to be managed with this: http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html
INFRA-4034 exists to enable our CMS, so the site update process is manual for now.

Billie

Billie,

Because this thread is primarily concerned with infrastructure issues, I thought it may be the right place to make another infrastructure suggestion.  You may want to consider using Nabble to host your mailing lists. From my experience it is more user-friendly and has some good social aspects to it.  The two that come to mind from my experience are:

-  an activity based ranking system (based on the number of posts) http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=app_people&node=930721  , and

- a form to allow users to directly reply to questions from the web-page.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Billie J Rinaldi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:35:30 PM
Subject: Re: wiki & release

OK, I'm convinced we may not need a wiki.

On Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:14:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> • Consider creating a "site" project in your SVN tree

We do have a site project in SVN, intended to be managed with this: http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html
INFRA-4034 exists to enable our CMS, so the site update process is manual for now.

Billie

> Billie,
>
>
>
> Because this thread is primarily concerned with infrastructure issues, I thought it may be the right place to make another infrastructure suggestion.  You may want to consider using Nabble to host your mailing lists. From my experience it is more user-friendly and has some good social aspects to it.  The two that come to mind from my experience are:

Apache projects use Apache mailing list infrastructure. And Nabble
mangles XML email, so people who use it are frequently frustrated.

--benson

>
> -  an activity based ranking system (based on the number of posts) http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=app_people&node=930721  , and
>
> - a form to allow users to directly reply to questions from the web-page.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Billie J Rinaldi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:35:30 PM
> Subject: Re: wiki & release
>
> OK, I'm convinced we may not need a wiki.
>
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:14:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> • Consider creating a "site" project in your SVN tree
>
> We do have a site project in SVN, intended to be managed with this: http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html
> INFRA-4034 exists to enable our CMS, so the site update process is manual for now.
>
> Billie
>