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Re: Hadoop Development and the new Oracle's PlansMarcos Ortiz 2011-03-03, 16:10
Thanks a lot for the excellent response.
Regards.
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 10:43 +0000, Steve Loughran wrote:
> On 02/03/11 17:05, Marcos Ortiz Valmaseda wrote:
> > Regards to all the list.
> > I have a doubt in my mind since Oracle announced its new plans for Java.
>
> The ASF has left the JCP due to Sun and then Oracles unwillingness to
> release the Java test kit without imposing freedom of use restrictions
> on Apache source code, despite the JCP rules not permitting this. that
> doesn't mean the ASF is backing off Java development, merely backing off
> attempting to collaborate with others by way of a Standards body that
> has more in common with the peoples congress of the union of soviet
> socialist republics than with a functional democracy. We will work as
> open source projects, with all discussion, code and tests in the open.
>
>
>
> > 1- How the new restrictions can affect to the Hadoop Development?
>
> none, Apache code.
>
> Sun/Oracle are free to participate; some of the SunGrid people have been
> involved in the past. Their contributions are still welcome, if
> Hudson/Jenkins is happy with the code and the number of tests they
> provide.
>
> > 2- Will Hadoop support the new OpenJDK platform?
>
>
> OpenJDK 6 is effectively Sun JDK with a different rendering engine, the
> closed source one has C/C++ source from things like OSF/Motif and the
> like in there so it's copyright is dirty.
>
> I don't see anyone rushing to move to Java7 for Hadoop in production,
> either in source code or binary. Everyone with large clusters likes
> stable versions, and tends to be trailing edge with Java 6 versions,
> avoiding new features like compressed oops as you can predict that with
> 500+ 12-core servers, if there is a race condition in the JDK, you will
> find it.
>
> The other issue is that a lot of people out there use Mac laptops for
> their development, and until java7 ships for the mac, nobody who has a
> mac will be able to develop any Java 7 code. That's another reason for
> Hadoop staying on Java6
>
> What could be interesting would be for Hadoop to have more scala
> integration. I think there are some good arguments for us moving some of
> the high level code to that language, within the JVM, rather than follow
> the oracle roadmap.
>
> Speaking of Oracle Roadmaps, they keep talking about Java EE moving to
> be cloud computing. Well, the Java Cloud Computing API is the ASF stack,
> from libraries like Whirr to talk to the infrastructure, the Hadoop DFS
> and MR APIs to talk to the filesystem and MR engine, and the layers on
> top. They can lay down some standards in the JCP, but out here you get
> to build things that are useful today.
>
> -steve
--
Marcos Luís Ortíz Valmaseda
Software Engineer
Centro de Tecnologías de Gestión de Datos (DATEC)
Universidad de las Ciencias Informáticas
http://uncubanitolinuxero.blogspot.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcosluis2186
Regards.
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 10:43 +0000, Steve Loughran wrote:
> On 02/03/11 17:05, Marcos Ortiz Valmaseda wrote:
> > Regards to all the list.
> > I have a doubt in my mind since Oracle announced its new plans for Java.
>
> The ASF has left the JCP due to Sun and then Oracles unwillingness to
> release the Java test kit without imposing freedom of use restrictions
> on Apache source code, despite the JCP rules not permitting this. that
> doesn't mean the ASF is backing off Java development, merely backing off
> attempting to collaborate with others by way of a Standards body that
> has more in common with the peoples congress of the union of soviet
> socialist republics than with a functional democracy. We will work as
> open source projects, with all discussion, code and tests in the open.
>
>
>
> > 1- How the new restrictions can affect to the Hadoop Development?
>
> none, Apache code.
>
> Sun/Oracle are free to participate; some of the SunGrid people have been
> involved in the past. Their contributions are still welcome, if
> Hudson/Jenkins is happy with the code and the number of tests they
> provide.
>
> > 2- Will Hadoop support the new OpenJDK platform?
>
>
> OpenJDK 6 is effectively Sun JDK with a different rendering engine, the
> closed source one has C/C++ source from things like OSF/Motif and the
> like in there so it's copyright is dirty.
>
> I don't see anyone rushing to move to Java7 for Hadoop in production,
> either in source code or binary. Everyone with large clusters likes
> stable versions, and tends to be trailing edge with Java 6 versions,
> avoiding new features like compressed oops as you can predict that with
> 500+ 12-core servers, if there is a race condition in the JDK, you will
> find it.
>
> The other issue is that a lot of people out there use Mac laptops for
> their development, and until java7 ships for the mac, nobody who has a
> mac will be able to develop any Java 7 code. That's another reason for
> Hadoop staying on Java6
>
> What could be interesting would be for Hadoop to have more scala
> integration. I think there are some good arguments for us moving some of
> the high level code to that language, within the JVM, rather than follow
> the oracle roadmap.
>
> Speaking of Oracle Roadmaps, they keep talking about Java EE moving to
> be cloud computing. Well, the Java Cloud Computing API is the ASF stack,
> from libraries like Whirr to talk to the infrastructure, the Hadoop DFS
> and MR APIs to talk to the filesystem and MR engine, and the layers on
> top. They can lay down some standards in the JCP, but out here you get
> to build things that are useful today.
>
> -steve
--
Marcos Luís Ortíz Valmaseda
Software Engineer
Centro de Tecnologías de Gestión de Datos (DATEC)
Universidad de las Ciencias Informáticas
http://uncubanitolinuxero.blogspot.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcosluis2186
